John Molden  | Stories of Connecting to Name, Event and Place

Stories in Our Roots 0:03
Welcome to the Stories in Our Roots podcast. I'm your host Heather Murphy. In this podcast, we dive deep into how knowing the stories of our ancestors can make a difference in our lives today, discovering our family history is more than a hobby. It is a way to connect deeply with ourselves, those we love, and the world around us.

Heather Murphy 0:25
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Stories in Our Roots. I am Heather Murphy. Today's interview is with John Molden. And we talk about how he discovered that he was named after a certain ancestor and what it was like for him as he learned more about that person. We also talk about how researching our family can make history more personal like it do when he found a journal from one of his relatives that served in World War One. Here's the interview with John Molden.

Hello, John, thank you so much for joining me today. I am glad to have you here. And I'm looking forward to hearing yours experiences researching your family history. Now to start off, could you give us just a little bit of an introduction about yourself?

John Molden 1:13
Well, my name is John. I'm currently based out of I live in Australia. I'm actually a historian myself, I am studying history my at university. And yeah, it's just one of those very interesting things when you study history. And also being a fan of genealogy and studying my own family history about a knowing sort of where you came from, like where your family history was all from. And it's very interesting, sort of looking at that. I am actually also an actor myself. I'm a singer, dancer performer. And it is always like such a great thing I love doing it's probably one of my number one passions.

Heather Murphy 2:04
Well, thanks. Now, can you tell us, how did you start becoming interested in researching your family's history?

John Molden 2:11
Well, I guess it really all started with it all started with a book that I heard about when I was very when I was when I was younger, it was cold. It was called the Robins book. Now the Robbins's was my mom's side of the family. I'd heard about this from my auntie, my auntie Heather, and she was someone who was also into genealogy and into family history and all that. And she had this book that had been compiled of all the of like, primary sources of, you know, travel documents from a from the 1850s and 60s when my family came to Australia. And that sort of sparked an interest in me, but it also sparked an interesting discussion in my own name.

One day, I was researching my name, online, use, you know, some I think we all you know, we want to see what our presence is online. Sometimes I talk to my full name. And I was very amazed to find that there was someone else with my exact same name, but they died in 1943. And I was like, Okay, I have to look into this. I asked my dad, he didn't know too much about it, because he hadn't done a lot of research into his family history. But the further I looked into it, I found out he was my great grandfather's brother. And then, when I found that out, I asked my dad, why was I named after him. And I was named after him. And it turns out, my dad told me, my dad told me the story. When he's John Rankin Molden, the first as I call him, when his daughter was basically handed all his entire estate in '43. He was she was only in a she was in her 30s. And she was married to a man known as Henry Cole. And anyone who is Australian might be familiar with that last name, because Henry Cole was the son of J. G. Cole, the starter of the Cole's franchise of supermarkets in Australia, which is still going strong today. When he died, she was left with all of this all of this money. And she didn't have any kids of her own. So she was going to will it to someone. The story goes that she hired private investigators to investigate any living relatives with the moulden last name in Australia. She found my my dad and his siblings. He had in private, she had private investigators investigate all of them and look into their lives and determined that my dad was actually the one to get Get the lion's share of the inheritance. And as a sign of respect to her, like this all happened before I was born as a sign of respect to her. When I was the first one of the, his first son, my mom and dad named me after her father.

Heather Murphy 5:17
Okay, and so then you didn't learn this story until much, much later in your life, like how old were you when you learn that?

John Molden 5:22
I think I was only about... I was 20 or 21, when I actually learned about that story, but I was familiar of him before. Like, before, I was like, 16, I was familiar with him. But I never did much more beyond that. It was only once I was about 20, 21, that I started to really do research. And, you know, it's looking, you know, cemetery records, and all that sort of stuff to try and see. And you look at all these primary documents, like probate documents, and marriage and death certificates. Thank you, Ancestry.com. For that, as I think a lot of people, a lot of your listeners will probably say thank you to ancestry.com for helping that sort of process. And it was quite a process for me. And eventually, I did find, I found john Rankin Golden's grave, and I found I managed to actually physically find their grave in a cemetery in burwood in Melbourne.

Heather Murphy 6:22
What was it like to experience all this, like all this history behind your name?

John Molden 6:27
For me, it was like, it was amazing to sort of look into that. And I eventually I actually asked my dad, my dad had a little bit of info from he had a little bit of info and I asked what was john Rankin moldings business, like what did he do for a living? Turns out, he was a major importer. He owned an import business in Australia. And he was extremely wealthy and got very wealthy as a result of that business. But this was all in the 19, you know, the 1910s, end of world World War I, 1920s, 30s, when things were really booming, so he was a undoubtedly a very wealthy man. And I even found a census with his address. And he lived in one of the more upmarket suburbs of Melbourne. I asked my dad, why specifically, was there any other reasons why I was named after him. And he said that your mom and I really hoped that by giving his name, that you would be able to emulate some of his success,

Heather Murphy 7:31
And has learning about him, this person that you're named after, changed how you looked at yourself and your goals or what you might aspire to?

John Molden 7:43
It has actually. For the longest time when I was younger, I was embarrassed of my name, because I was teased about it when I was in, when I was in primary school. Even into high school, I was teased about my name. And then eventually, when I learned about how significant My name was, I didn't feel ashamed of it anymore.

Heather Murphy 8:05
Oh, that is a great story. From that experience. What other parts of your family have you discovered?

John Molden 8:13
I think there's a there's a few amazing stories that I was able to turn up and lots of old photographs I've been able to find, you know, of my, my great grandfather, who he was a, he was an officer in World War One. And I even I feel like this is such a great story that is so worth telling. One of my cousins, he was a very, very old cousin. He was a he fought in World War One. And he wrote a diary of his time in World War One. This diary that he wrote, unfortunately, he didn't live to come back to Australia, because he left Australia in 19, I think was end of 1914 to go to Egypt. And then from there, he went on to fight in the lipoly. I think I'll briefly explain because I'm not sure a lot of a lot of your viewers may be familiar with what got lipoly was but glibly was the biggest, it's probably the most stellar. It's one of the most celebrated in terms of campaigns that Australian and New Zealand soldiers or the anzacs, as they were known, took part in and it was the first major engagement of the Australian New Zealand Army Corps in like the war, but unfortunately, it was a failure. It was it because Gallipoli was coming up against the Turks and the text knew where they were landing. So for on the 25th of April, in 1915, the gleefully campaign began, but within a month, they were for the English, Australia and New Zealand troops were all forced to retrain. That's all been written about in my my cousin's diary, he wrote about all of that stuff. And then he went on to formel. He went on to the Western Front That was where he died.

And where the story gets really, really interesting. Because his diary ended up, it ended up in the hands of officers and that was sent back to his mother. But before it was sent back, it was redacted. There were elements within the diary that someone went with the black maka, and had to black out certain words of time, certain word schedules and understandable because it was war, if someone had got their hands on this diary, the chances are, there could be information in there that could be used. So they redacted all the information like they even redacted the name of the ship in which he went to Australia went from Australia to Egypt on they blacked out that because they knew that if you know the enemy found out that was a troop carrier, it could be a topic could potentially become a target. This diary eventually came back, it came back to our family. And this is where it got even more interesting because he ended up in a chest in a secret compartment of a chest. for 50 years, it stayed in the chat, it was put out 50s it was put into a chest and this chest got handed around the family. No one knew what was in it. Eventually, only about 15 years ago, 15 1015 years ago, the chess was brought still stayed in the family, but it was by a close relative. And they opened it up. But within that they found the secret compartment that the diary was in, they found that secret compartment and they looked at the diary and they're like this diary is almost 100 years old. What they did was they decided to get the diary printed, they got a copy of it all printed, and everything. And the original is now in the Australian War Memorial in Canberra. And we do have a copy of it. Which actually, I would love to have read some expert excerpts from it. I actually do are in that diary, the copy of that diary. And I'm like, I would love to get my hands on the original. But it is right now sitting in a but it's sitting in a case in the Australian War Museum in Canberra. And even though my family could technically get it back, we thought it's definitely best left there as a memento.

Heather Murphy 12:15
Right, especially since you have a copy of it. So if you can read through it.

John Molden 12:18
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And we think when when it was copied and given back to us, we think they redacted a bit more info.

Heather Murphy 12:26
Oh. So what are you able to learn from that even though there's all that redacted?

John Molden 12:33
I was able to sort of learn his timeline of where he went. So he went from Australia, then on to Egypt. And then from there, that's when he went on to Gallipoli. And it's interesting to read the excerpts and to hear the thoughts of someone who was actually there. And in some ways, it does paint a quite a bleak picture of what war was like. And I must admit, one of the most amazing things I've realized as a skill I have is being able to read and understand handwriting from 100 years ago, and I've read it and it's so easy for me to read that you just get the sense of like what he was going through during that time. And he was only like he only really was there in he was only in war for just over a year because he died in 19 1696. And two years later, the war would would be ending. But yeah, he never got to see the end of the war.

Heather Murphy 13:33
So what would you say the value is and you being able to have read that?

John Molden 13:39
As a historian, it's a very valuable primary source in terms of like, as historians, the one thing we we search for and we thrive for is primary sources, because we can have all the secondary sources in the world, but they're always a degree of separation from the actual event. But when you have a primary source from the event, all of a sudden, you get so much more of an understanding. That is what doesn't just give them an understanding for me and my family. But it also gives an understanding of this is wasn't probably with just thoughts of just one soldier. This was the thoughts of 10s of 1000s, millions of soldiers who went to fight in World War One.

Heather Murphy 14:22
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John Molden 15:06
And so someone who had an ancestor that was there at the same time in the same place could learn about that diary and read it. And even though it wouldn't be the exact thing, they learn a lot about what their ancestor might have felt and experienced at the same time. Absolutely. The thing about the Anzacs was a they all were basically a brotherhood back then. And the diary really sells that story that there was slightest animosity between, you know, commanders and soldiers, but the soldiers were all there together, and it really, really sold it.

Heather Murphy 15:43
And that's something you don't get from just military documents, typically.

John Molden 15:48
No, you and you can't just, it's not something you can easily get from, you can't get that from, you know, a textbook or something like that. It's like as much as when you're learning about history, the textbooks are great. But it can be tricky to get a real sense, because textbooks and secondary sources can always be written with a bias and with a certain point of view, but a primary source is written maybe with the slightest of biases, but it was written at the time, and gives you that much better understanding of things that were happening at that time.

Heather Murphy 16:25
And I think it makes a lot more personal to because textbooks are so sterile, that you don't really realize how the things that are often in textbooks actually affected the everyday person.

John Molden 16:38
Exactly. And checked in textbooks can tend to generalize quite a bit, they can be quite General, without the prime resources, like sure those textbooks would not exist, and they wouldn't be as factually accurate without the primary without the primary sources. But the primary sources, you always prefer to go to them as a historian, you prefer to go to the primary sources and look at them in the context in which they were created.

Heather Murphy 17:06
And I wonder how many people who go through school and say they don't like history, if their opinion would change? If they did that research themselves, and put together those pieces instead of just letting somebody else tell them?

John Molden 17:21
I think absolutely, it would change. I mean, one of the things that I think that even history in schools, even here in Australia, and I think in America, that one thing that I think a lot of history teachers lack is making. The reason why the history is seen as boring to a lot of people is because they don't find the personal connection, which is why I think one of the focuses that should be within history that's taught in, in elementary school and middle school and high school is there should be some elements of personal, some elements, some personal elements within and maybe get the kids to ask their parents, what was grandparents like in such and such a time? What were they doing or ask even do a little bit of research into their own family and find out something very unique? Maybe they will find? Who knows, maybe they'll find that one of their, one of their ancestors got to this is what can surprise some people, um, World War Two veterans. This is what I've met through my research, World War Two veterans who've won Victoria Cross awards in Australia and England, some of them posthumously, a lot of these younger people who are now sort of in their late 40s, early 50s, they may not have known that their father was a was a Victoria Cross winner. And anyone who knows what the Victoria Cross is, it's the highest award for gallantry the most. It's and it's awarded to a person who does some of the most selfless acts in the face, putting their own body on the line, and at risk, say all to defend other people. And most of those people probably don't even realize, I feel like there's a lot of famous, like war heroes out there that we just don't know about anymore.

Heather Murphy 19:12
Yeah, I think a lot of times, people don't think to ask questions until it's too late. And then they say, Oh, I wish I would have asked more of that person that's not around.

John Molden 19:23
Exactly. And it's a very sad thing. But if you ask, I think that's why it's important, you know, for history teachers to encourage younger kids to ask those questions. And sure, maybe the parents cannot answer them. But get those kids to jump on the internet, get onto ancestry, find some documents, look up the names of their family members. I mean, it all started with me with just doing the family tree that I knew about. And eventually my family tree I've managed to find cousins of like different surnames. Because my Family dates back to England, England, Scotland and Ireland. Lou Tani's a little bit of Welsh, but I've been able to track back where that came from my mom's side of the family, they all came from one particular account. They were they I've got up to one particular county, in England. And then I've got my dad's side of the family. Some of them are from Ireland, some of them are from Scotland. Like, it's just very interesting to sort of find out where your family history came from.

Heather Murphy 20:33
And how has that felt as you've made those discoveries, as you move back and made connections in different parts of the world, or that more cousins?

John Molden 20:42
it's interesting to sort of, you know, realize that they're probably, I'm probably currently related in terms of like, people of my generation, I probably have maybe hundreds of distant relations that I never met, probably never knew about. I mean, there's one family that leaves no joke. They've lived about less than 50 kilometers, or about 70 miles within 30 miles of me, they've lived with me that pretty much all my life, they are relations that technically cousins, and I've never met them. They're on my dad's side of the family, but I've never actually met them. It's just very interesting to look at all that sort of learn about where your history where your history is, and who amazingly you can be related to. Mm hmm.

Heather Murphy 21:34
Do you have any other stories that are your favorites that you've come across as you've researched?

John Molden 21:39
I think the the other very great stories that my third or fourth great grandfather, third great grandfather, he was not sure how many of your viewers are familiar with Australian history. But the first two major cities that were formed in Australia when Australia was being colonized was Sydney and Melbourne. Melbourne's expansion was weird, it expanded in the south a East aced northeast north, but it very rarely expanded West because the land out West was swampy. There was no reason there was no way they could really build out there.

My third great grandfather, his name was Joseph Pendridge. He and about and this is a story I learned not just through him, but it was about him and about 12 other men had owned all the land. And what is now in the northern suburbs of like the northern suburbs of Melbourne. And those suburbs, the names of their suburbs are still some of them are still named after the original owners of the land, because as Melbourne expanded north, the Melbourne councils went to these landowners and said to them, we will give you x amount of dollars, and we want to buy your land to build on and expand Melbourne. A lot of them agreed. My third great grandfather was immediately willing to sell he sold his land to to these people wanting to develop Melbourne further north. And the suburb that was created from the land that he earned was called pentridge. And on that particular side, there was a jail that still stands to this day, it was an lonely closed about 20 years, about 20 years ago Don't be closed was called pentridge jail and it was named after him after the suburb that he that on the land in which he owned and that jail was very important because it was the first major jail in Melbourne. And it was where a lot of convicts and criminals went. And they were charged with building what is known as Sydney road, which to anyone who is very fat very well. Anyone who knows Melbourne, like Sydney road is the road that originally existed and it was the way you go from Melbourne, out of Melbourne, to heading to north to Sydney, and he eventually moved out of Melbourne.

He moved he moved out of that area and he moved to the area in which I live in a place called gippsland. He lived in a very small town called tune Gabby. It turns out he's actually buried in the local cemetery. When I first found out I was like, wait, it's not the same. Joseph pentridge that is the same person. I went out and I found his grave. And yeah, it is the same one. Because in that exact same grave is my grandmother, second great grandmother. It was just such an amazing like experience to sort of you know Go through all that. exploring all that family history and everything, give just find so many, you find so many interesting like elements of it. And it is amazing to just explore all of that and to find how important not just your family history, but to how important your family history was to something so big the development of Melbourne being the big one.

Heather Murphy 25:26
Yeah, it definitely puts those bigger things in perspective when you know, your family was there during that time. And this was their piece in it.

John Molden 25:36
Yeah, absolutely. My third great grandfather, he was there during like the Gold Rush, when that happened in Australia, which happened within only within a year of the California Gold Rush. What was going on in California was pretty much happening at the same time here in Australia. And that's another element I love about history in you know, family history is that when you look at elements that mirror throughout the entire world, and you see like, well, things happened, like things happened in Europe at random at a similar time as they happened here in Australia, or they happen in America at the same time as they happen in Europe. It's just very interesting to look at all that and find where did your family fit in that? Yeah.

Heather Murphy 26:21
Well, thank you so much for sharing your stories. Before you go, could you share some advice for someone who is thinking about learning and researching their family's history,

John Molden 26:33
I can give a couple of pieces of advice, the first one being, don't be afraid of what you find the chances are, you're going to find things that are going to be very confronting, and they are going to shake you and they are going to they may cause you to have certain opinions about your ancestors. But the biggest thing you need to take away from that is to not be afraid and to understand that as history goes times change, and things that may have been different back then are not the same as what they were. So because I know you hear the stories of when someone finds out that someone may find out that their ancestor was, well, they were a Nazi. They vote for the Germans in World War Two, or maybe you know, in the case of some of your listeners, they may, you know, who knows, maybe some of them might do their family research and find that their ancestor own slaves. I think those kinds of things, it can be quite confronting. But there always needs to be this understanding of times have changed. That was a different time, and not to let what happened in the past, define who you are now. It's always good to know where your family came from. But it's never a good thing to dwell on it. Truth be told, if you find something that is confronting, we can look at it as something that happened. But it happened. We can't change that. But what we can do is see how it takes us forward?

Heather Murphy 28:20
I think that's great advice. Because while the past has contributed to our who we are, like you said, it doesn't define who we are.

John Molden 28:30
I'm gonna be honest, there are elements within my family history I've looked back on and I'm like, Huh, was it worth knowing that? Maybe not? Am I glad to know it? Probably. Does it define who I am? Absolutely not.

Heather Murphy 28:47
Anything else you wanted to add?

John Molden 28:49
If anyone's ever confused about where to start, all it starts with is your name. Just start with your name. And everything else comes from there.

Heather Murphy 29:02
Well, thank you so much for sharing these stories with us and your perspective on how important it is to know our stories and how that was part of history as a whole.

John Molden 29:13
Well, thank you very much for having me on. It's been great to talk about it.

Stories in Our Roots 29:19
Thank you for joining me today for Stories in Our Roots. Please help this podcast grow by subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with your friends. If you have feedback or would like to recommend someone to share their story, head to storiesinourroots.com and fill out the form. Thanks again for listening and I look forward to being with you again next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai